Olin Moyles Ghost

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Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

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  28

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 05-11-08 WT Study (CRIES)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  " (ps.

  but like david, we can be comforted in knowing that jehovah fully understands our distresses.-ps.34:15.. ot example--david.

  ot example--solomon.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Blondie,
  
  Thanks for the summary. I like how you pointed out the way the Society covers its bases. In a sense, I am impressed at how they work. If you pray for something and it comes true, then that's an answer to prayer. If it doesn't come true, then it just wasn't God's time. Either way, it should build our faith in Jehovah and (especially!) in his organization!
  
  Witnesses can use this type of reasoning to rationalize absolutely anything. I knew some friends who had an elder in their hall who was exposed as having been a pedophile for several years while on the elder body. One of the friends said that Jehovah must have let this continue because the congregation couldn't have handled it if it had come out sooner. I told this person that this was the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life and that I hope you don't actually believe that. Then my wife wisely changed the subject.
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  56

  Our CO gave a talk to kids. Stay OUT of school!

  by easyreader1970 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  he wanted to talk to the young ones in the congregation.

  the main theme of the talk had to do with avoiding higher education.

  basically the main idea was this: witnesses are losing alot of young people here in the last few years.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  White Dove: "One poster said that a degree didn't guarantee a job and that we were foolish to think so."
  
  If you've been in the organization for any length of time, you have heard a talk where this point (i.e., that a college degree doesn't guarantee a job) made. The application is always that because of this it's dumb to go to college.
  
  Even when I was a card-carrying, FDS-obeying, regular pioneering JW, I disliked this reasoning. It's one of the oldest logical fallacies in the book: "the straw man." Of course a college degree doesn't guarantee a job. I've never met anyone who said that it does. But does that mean you shouldn't get one? Think about it this way: Under JW doctrine, being a JW does not guarantee salvation. Does this mean you shouldn't be a JW? Of course not! (according to their view)
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  22

  If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  first, some background: when i first began to have doubts about whether the jw religion was "the truth," i performed quite a bit of research on the faithful and discreet slave doctrine...in the society's literature, of course.

  like many of us, i had never really examined the doctrine.

  well, needless to say (but i'll say it anyway), i found major flaws in the society's interpretation of the parable of the faithful and discreet slave.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  AAG,
  
  You're right about the way the FDS works. I am still amazed that this self-serving and contrived doctrine, cobbled together from a few misapplied and mismatched scriptures, had me fooled for so long. When you take a step back, it seems pretty clear that the FDS doctrine is a means to an end. That is, it's simply a way to give some kind of scriptural underpinning to the power asserted by a man or group of men (the GB).
  
  I've heard the wheat and weeds tie-in. Again, it's another example of how the Society's self-serving applications of Jesus' parables fall apart when examined closely. So, from the end of the 1st Century down to Russell's time, there were two mutually exclusive conditions: (1) the FDS was providing the right food at the right time, but (2) they were indistinguishable from weed-like false Christians (so indistinguishable that Jesus can't even tell them apart?).
  
  As to 1914, I've had some discussions with my wife about this. She's not unreasonable, but she is definitely more "in" than I am. She concedes that 1914 may not be the right date, but asks "what does that change?" We've discussed the 1919 appointment of the FDS, and how if 1914 was wrong, then the FDS wasn't appointed in 1919. Her reply is that it could have happened some other year. In other words, she's not too hung up on dates. But she realizes the problems with the org., and the false prophecies, etc.
  
  The things that keep her hanging on are: (1) JWs don't go to war; (2) JWs avoid celebrations/traditions with pagan origins; and (3) JWs are doing the preaching work. When I discuss whether you need an organization, #3 is what keeps her hanging on. She says that if the preaching work has to be done, you need an organization to do it, and it doesn't make sense to have lots of fragmented individuals going off teaching a variety of doctrines. Thus, you need some kind of unified organization. My response is that this is a human viewpoint. If Jesus wants to get a work done, he can see that it's done to his satisfaction without needing some American corporation to oversee it--especially an American corporation with a 130-year history of falsely prophesying in his name, etc.
  
  Anyway, it looks like I hijacked my own thread...
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  22

  If the FDS was appointed in 33 C.E., then why did Jesus inspect in 1918?

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  first, some background: when i first began to have doubts about whether the jw religion was "the truth," i performed quite a bit of research on the faithful and discreet slave doctrine...in the society's literature, of course.

  like many of us, i had never really examined the doctrine.

  well, needless to say (but i'll say it anyway), i found major flaws in the society's interpretation of the parable of the faithful and discreet slave.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  First, some background: When I first began to have doubts about whether the JW religion was "the Truth," I performed quite a bit of research on the Faithful and Discreet Slave doctrine...in the Society's literature, of course. Like many of us, I had never really examined the doctrine. Well, needless to say (but I'll say it anyway), I found major flaws in the Society's interpretation of the parable of the faithful and discreet slave.
  
  While there are lots of flaws in the doctrine, let me identify one apparent contradiction in the Society's interpretation of this parable. First, three background "facts":
  

   1) Jesus appointed the anointed remnant to be the FDS in 33 C.E. (See God's Kingdom of 1,000 Years, p. 342, para. 23) 2) The FDS continued throughout the centuries after 33 C.E., "[a]pparently one generation of the 'slave' class fed the next succeeding generation thereof." (God's Kingdom of 1,000 Years, p. 344, para. 29) 3) Then, during the 1918/1919 time frame, Jesus inspected all those claiming to be Christian and picked the Bible Students. (See WT 3/15/1990, p. 14, para. 21) 

  So, if succeeding generations of the FDS fed each other from 33 C.E. down through the centuries, why did Jesus need to inspect all the other religions? Wouldn't he just inspect the slave that he appointed back in 33 C.E., rather than all these counterfeit, wanna-be faithful and discreet slaves? That seems more in line with the account in Matthew.
  
  Caveat: Personally, I don't believe the FDS is a class. Rather, this is just a parable exhorting Christians to do good to others and stating that if we do good to others, then Jesus will reward us. This parable provides no basis for providing a group of men with the ability to make rules and go beyond what is written (Matt. 15:9, 1 Cor. 4:6). Nonetheless, as someone who is still a JW and has family and friends in the religion, I find some benefit in examining JW doctrine such as this.
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  26

  Watchtower LOSES BIG on BLOOD in Court

  by skeeter1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  please read this post!.

  the ireland case is a big loss for the watchtower society.. it's a big win for ex-jws.

  i read the very, very , very long irish high court's opinion.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Thanks for the summary, skeeter. I've never heard the "Coke and tomatoes" thing. That's crazy.
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  56

  Our CO gave a talk to kids. Stay OUT of school!

  by easyreader1970 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  he wanted to talk to the young ones in the congregation.

  the main theme of the talk had to do with avoiding higher education.

  basically the main idea was this: witnesses are losing alot of young people here in the last few years.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  We had this talk during a recent C.O. visit. To be fair, he did not spend much time harping on higher education. Rather, he focused on "positive" things, such as making a "career" in the organization (e.g., pioneer, bethel, MTS). As far as mid-week C.O. talks go, it was pretty balanced.
  
  I hate to admit it, but I was disappointed in how balanced the talk was. I enjoy the crazy talks and articles because they give me an opportunity to make points with my wife. We have a C.O. who, while not particularly charismatic, seems like a decent guy. Sure, he does his job during the week pushing the congregation to do more, but he could be a lot worse.
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  43

  KISS-OFF letter to me from an old JW friend I recently saw again

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought i'd start a different thread for this from the funeral experience where i saw this jw again after 30+ years.. after her first e-mail to me i wrote her back and answered direct questions she'd asked me.

  i didn't push any agenda.. here is her kiss-off:.

  first my apologies for how long my reply has taken.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Terry,
  
  Thanks for sharing your friend's letter and your response. I concur with some of the other commenters that she sounds like an intelligent, yet deceived, person.
  
  One of her statements surprised me: "I'm confident you recognize that 'slander' can be correctly used to refer to spreading around facts as well as to spreading lies."
  
  I wonder where she got this idea? The dictionary and legal definitions of "slander" both require *false* defamatory spoken statements. I did a quick Watchtower library search and found this paragraph from a 10/15/1989 Watchtower article:
  
  Gossip is “idle talk, not always true, about other people and their affairs.” It is “light, familiar talk or writing.” Since all of us are interested in people, we sometimes say good, upbuilding things about others. Slander is different. It is “a false report meant to do harm to the good name and reputation of another.” Such talk is generally malicious and is unchristian.
  
  So, I don't know where she got the idea that slander can be true, yet unflattering, statements.
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  21

  Transcript of U.S. v. Rutherford, et al.?

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  over the past few months, i have been researching the wt society's doctrines and history.

  in doing so, i have tried to use as little so-called "apostate" material as possible.

  this is because (as we are all aware) witnesses are taught to fear apostate literature, and if i ever hope to enlighten any of my loved ones, i am not going to be able to do so by waving a copy of coc in their faces.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Thanks, Atlantis!
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  18

  Rutherford v. The United States--PDF!

  by Atlantis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  rutherford v. the united states--pdf!

  b=bookmarked s=searchable r=reduced from 325-mb to 156-mb rutherford v. the united states: read the exciting case of joseph f. rutherford, the leader of jehovah's witnesses who was found guilty in 1918 of "conspiracy to violate the espionage law" and sentenced to 20 years in the federal penitentiary in atlanta, ga. all the dramatic court testimony is presented in this pdf which combines two large volumes into one file.

  here is one of the most controversial trials in the history of american religion, and there are extras included with this file!

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Thanks...great job!
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  18

  Rationales behind Elimination of the Book Study and Likely Effects Thereof

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i realize that the book study news has been discussed ad nauseam, but i would like to join the fun.

  lots of potential reasons have been bandied about on the board.

  for example, legal liability for crimes/torts that take place at the bookstudy homes may make the society nervous.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  yknot, I've noticed the clampdown too. I don't specifically remember sports being mentioned recently, but higher education has been beaten to death over the past couple of years.
  
  On the surface this change appears to be opposed to the Society's current hard-line direction. Perhaps there are competing factions on the GB? No matter what, there is no way this was a unanimous vote!